Answer one of 2-6 below until they are all answered, then collectively discuss 1.
1) Were the White Sox players being exploited?
2) How much was a baseball player paid in 1919?
3) How much were average wages in 1919?
4) How much did the owner of the Sox make?
5) When exactly did Prohibition start?
6) When was the Depression and how many people did it effect?
My thoughts on the first question. I think that the players were exploited in a way. Once you are a professional athlete the business aspect of the game starts to take over the love for the game. Especially back then when athletes were not making anywhere close to what they do now. As an athlete when your are playing for a owner who does not care about anything other than making himself money I can see how you would want to screw him over. On the other side of the issue you have to remember your love for the game and how many people look up to you to give it your all to win. Personally I would never consider throwing a game for money or participating in a fix, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. The players for the whitsox did maybe have the best reason you could have to throw a game but I do not agree with what they did.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fact about not being able to sleep at night with two things in mind. That fact that what they were doing was morally and competitively wrong and the consequences they could face if one word or suspicion were to arise. It would be terrible to know that somebody may rat on you at any point. Those players involved in the scandal had to be aware this would put their jobs on the line if caught. That goes to show how much people will do for a little cash.
DeleteI think that one could make a strong case that the players were exploited, and I think that this was portrayed well in the film on a number of occasions: They were given flat champagne instead of a bonus, Cicotte was denied the paycheck he had earned, and they were generally treated poorly by Comiskey. One interesting note is that Comiskey was previously a professional prior to becoming an owner and so it is interesting that he was so concerned in leveraging a profit at the expense of his players when he was in fact in their shoes not too long before.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, however, the film seemed to suggest that they were not exactly living in abject poverty: It seemed that their income was certainly above a subsistence level and did not require them to forego many pleasures. Furthermore, I included a note below that demonstrates they were actually making between two and eleven times what the average American was earning in 1919. One has to be wary to compare the salaries of these players (even after adjustment for inflation) with the salaries of current players. Just because they were not making as much as they would today does not mean they were completely mistreated. In other words, they were taken advantage of, but one has to keep such potential exploitation in perspective and consider the context.
There was a Constitutional ban on the production, transportation, sale, or use of alcoholic beverages from 1920 to 1933, so the use of alcohol portrayed in this movie was not illicit. This diminishes how far Comiskey went out of his way to procure the champagne for his players, given that the sale of alcohol was legal.
(Source: https://prohibition.osu.edu/, accessed October 21)
The average income for individuals working in all industries in 1920 was approximately $1400 per year (up from $575 per year ten years earlier). The average income for state and federal employees was only $1164 per year (up from $699 per year ten years earlier). Either way, this demonstrates exactly how much money $10000 was, given that that is about the amount an average American would make in more than seven years.
(Source: http://usa.usembassy.de/etexts/his/e_prices1.htm, accessed October 21)
Interestingly, these baseball players were actually making decent salaries, as mentioned above. The table below shows the published salaries for the nine players involved in the scandal.
Eddie Collins -- $15000
Joe Jackson -- $6000
Buck Weaver -- $6000
Eddie Cicotte -- $5000
Chick Gandil -- $4000
Happy Felsch -- $3750
Lefty Williams -- $3000
Fred McMullin -- $2750
Swede Risberg -- $2500
As a reminder, the national average salary was $1400 per year.
(Source: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1919&t=CHA, accessed October 21; note this source also includes more statistics about the implicated players)
The value of the White Sox had grown to a full $750000 by the late 1910s, so I imagine that Comiskey was quite wealthy, though I cannot really find a quote on how much his salary was online. This is a fantastic source to learn more about the man: http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/8fbc6b31 (accessed October 21). It really portrays the scandal evenhandedly and also shows the lengths to which Comiskey went to develop his team which might explain why he was so reluctant to see them become banned from baseball. The article also describes Comiskey as benevolent to his fans (as described with a number of examples), which seems to be in stark contrast to the way he treated the players.
One interesting concluding comment is that the White Sox had already been called the Black Sox long before the scandal, as a result of how dirty their uniforms always were since Comiskey was always trying to squeeze as much money out of them as he could.
Sorry -- I just noticed you noted to answer only two of the questions and did not mean to take away from the ability of others to get involved here. Anyone is of course welcome to check my numbers and sources.
DeleteI am also open to debating the first question with anyone.
#1 Yes most definitely the white sox were being exploited. Doing a little research on the items below I found that the nickname black soxs actually came from the teams jerseys because the owner wanted the team members to pay for washing their uniforms and another fact that I found in a separate article was the fact that he had the best players but paid them like they were the worst players and the owner had a clause in their contracts that in order for them to be traded the owner had to sign off on the deal. So basically the players had no way to bargain with the owner. He was getting rich while his players were suffering. I believe this is much worse than what most NCAA athletes have to go through, while it is the same thing except theirs was an actual paying job not schooling.
ReplyDelete#2 http://sabr.org/research/mlbs-annual-salary-leaders-1874-2012 This may provide information on question, best baseball player made 20,000 or 282, 483 dollars
#3 for the average income of a household it was 3724 dollars which would be 52,852 in todays day and age
#5 Prohibition began 1920-1933
#6 Depression started 1930-1940s and effected almost every single person
I think the 1919 White Sox were not doing any harm besides trying to make a few extra bucks to live.
ReplyDelete#2- the 2 best players on the team only made 6,000 a year. the highest salary was 20,000 that year.
#3- the incomes in 1919 were around 3,725.
the owner being so cheap is what forced the players into cheating. He had the money but was a jerk and didn't want to pay them for doing well, such as the pitcher that he sat out so he wouldn't have to pay him the bonus of 10,000.
#3-
5. Prohibition started in 1919. Prohibition was a nationwide Constitutional ban on the sale, production, importation, and transportation of alcoholic beverages in the US that took place from 1920 to 1933
ReplyDelete6. The depression started around 1930 and lasted until about the late 30s middle 1940s. The depression effected the people at the bottom of the rankings. Mainly the middle class and poor people felt the most impacted. The rich really didn't suffer that much. Many middle class and poor people lost their jobs and incomes--which highly effected there families. They became homeless and often couldn't afford to feed their families, as well. This effected people from all over--as millions around the world felt the sting of the depression on their shoulders.
Yes, I believe they were being exploited. I do not think that any of the players were being payed fairly. The movie also showed that their bonus was flat champagne instead of money. The one player was also told that if he pitched a certain amount of games that he would get a higher paycheck, but the owner sat him out just enough so that he would end up being 1 game short of getting that paycheck. That incident is clearly pointing out how unfair these players were being treated. The owner was using the players to make profit of his own. Not once did I witness the players being treated in a fair manner. The players, in my opinion, were overworked and underpayed.
ReplyDeleteyes, I believe the White Sox players were being exploited. the players were not paid fairly and the owners were cheap and selfish. The "Blacks Sox" on average made about $5,333 and the average salary across the league was $6000 a year. In the movie the owner was unfair with their bonuses and he also sat a player so he wouldn't have to pay him a bonus for playing 30 games. the White Sox was a top team back then but they wasn't paid like it. The players was in a tough situation financially which tempted them to throw the games and possible make a couple extra dollars.
ReplyDelete#1 Yes the White Sox players were exploited because they weren't really treated fairly. It was like the respect for the owners didn't click well with the players and manager where it led to an unequal balance of things. Especially to the fact that they were really good too which made things even worse by being treated as if they were bottom string players. Its understandable for them doing what they did due to the fact of them wanting to get money that they really deserved compared to what they were already getting.
ReplyDelete#2 The highest paid player in 1919 was Ty Cobb ($20,000) and $5,333.33 was the average for all the White Sox players combined.
#3 Hard to find a definite aanswer for that.
#4 No definite answer, but was for sure wealthy.
#5 The prohibition act started in January 1920.
#6 The Great Depression started from the 1930's to the mid 1940's and a lot of people were affected by not having jobs, not a lot of moneyand the entire economy was in a complete nutshell.
I agree with Ronnie, that there was a misconception between the manager and players and the unequal distribution of money. Considering how good they were, they should have been paid better.
Delete#1) I do believe the White Sox were being exploited but they did brought it about themselves by getting involved in the first place. They had to know that they would get caught because it was very obvious that some of the players were not playing their best. I can see why they did it because they were getting underpaid and taken advantage of by the owner. At the same time that does not excuse their behavior because their are other ways.
ReplyDeleteYes, the players were being exploited. The other only cared about how much money was being made for him. The players seemed to lose their love for the game, because of how they were being treated. I personally can relate to the players on thought about it a few times, even though there was no money involved for me. Also like Pat i would not be able to sleep at night. I am sure though the White Sox players thought they had a good enough reason.
ReplyDeleteThe players were being exploited. The owner's relationship with the players was rocky and not an ideal relationship in any ball club. The players thought that they were being underpaid with the production they were having. I can understand their wanting to make more money but know what they did was wrong. You can't bet on your team in any aspect of the game and is an ultimate form of cheating and taking away from the competitive nature of the game: Utilizing the best abilities of both teams. How you could not play to your best ability is a question that should never be asked. This reminded me of the case with Tim Donaghy, the referee who bet on a game he reffed which affect the point spread. He served prison time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy. Speaking from Kant's perspective, I would hate the fact if i knew my opponent wasnt giving it their all because it makes the competition not fun anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe prohibition started in 1919 and stopped the production and sale of alcohol in the US from 1920-1933.
The Great Depression occurred in the 1930s and 1940s and affected almost everyone economically. Many in cities suffered harsher because of the circumstances created such as poverty, starvation, availability for jobs and poor living conditions.
It is clear in the beginning of the movie the players are exploited when the owner basically tells the starting pitcher he held him out of games "for postseason play" so he didn't have to pay him his bonus. The players were barely making enough money working two jobs, while the owner and management were making hefty money. These are very harsh conditions, but no matter how much you want the owner to lose, throwing the series is not the right thing to do. It completely takes away from the game and those who follow it. The times they lived in showed how desperate they were to make the money, and the owner should have seen this coming when he has the hands down best team in baseball and they cannot afford to decently live. But all that being said, I also feel like the players had a choice. They could have walked away from the game and got a decent job instead, back then a college and even high school degree sometimes weren't required to get a job most places.
ReplyDeleteI think the players were definitely exploited. I believe had they been treated fairly or at least not promised things, such as raises, that they were never going to get the whole disaster could have been avoided. The owner of the Sox in my opinion handled his team very poorly. If you know you are not going to give a player a bonus, do not promise them one, or make it for a more reasonable amount. If you are going to bring them champagne after a game make sure its not flat, or giver them fewer good bottles, pr just not none at all. Had they not been given any champagne they wouldn't have been offended as they probably would have never even thought about it. the players took part in blowing games ultimately because they were not being treated fairly. If they has been taken care of properly they would have known they had too many good things at risk to blow the games, but they felt as if the risk was worth what they were being given.
ReplyDeleteProhibition started in 1919 and became official in 1920, it was the ban on selling, producing or transporting alcohol in the United States.
1) i think the players were definitely exploited. They may have been the greatest team ever to play the game but the owner treated them like garbage and i think if the owner treated them fairly then they wouldn't have thrown the world series and some of the players wouldnt have been banned from the game.
ReplyDelete2) Ty Cobb - $20,000
3) Incomes in 1919 were around 3,725.
4) Couldnt find - But he had enough to pay his players more
5)